The Behold User Forum

The Behold User Forum http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ The Behold User Forum http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/blog/../beholddiscuss.gif Posts by Louis Kessler are Copyright 2000-2013 Louis Kessler, All Rights Reserved. Posts by others belong to the people who made them. en Feature Suggestions: Source Driven Genealogy and Data http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=279#post-590 Mon, 25 Feb 2013 07:22:45 GMT lkessler 590@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Theresa, Thank you for excellent ideas. Your points are worthy of more than an answer here at the forum, so I've made <a href="http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/blog/?p=1288">a blog post</a> with my reaction to your one-place requirements. In the meantime, I do know of one program that is used by one-name study people that may be something closer to what you need. It's called <a href="http://www.custodian3.co.uk/">Custodian</a>. Try it out and see if it's better. Louis Feature Suggestions Feature Suggestions: Importing Two Ged Files http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=31#post-589 Sun, 24 Feb 2013 17:04:57 GMT lkessler 589@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Theresa, I doubt I will be implementing a side-by-side feature. My current thoughts are that I'll probably be mixing the data together, with events for each person ordered by date, and allowing you to highlight the data from the different GEDCOMs with a different background color. You would not want to use any genealogy program's merge utility to merge people in different censuses at one place. All program have people-based merges, that don't work for sources. You need a source-based data entry system, one that will suggest likely people that the source refers to. There isn't one out there that I know of (yet). Louis Feature Suggestions General Discussion: Beta? http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=210#post-588 Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:41:35 GMT lkessler 588@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Will, For you and for anyone else who reads this, the presentations are up at: <a href="http://sdrv.ms/XZJKN2" rel="nofollow">http://sdrv.ms/XZJKN2</a> I'll be leaving them up there for about a month, after which I'll take them down. Louis General Discussion Feature Suggestions: Source Driven Genealogy and Data http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=279#post-587 Sun, 10 Feb 2013 01:22:43 GMT serenity2006 587@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ I looked through the FUTURE plans list of ideas for BEHOLD software and the description of your approach. I like the Everything Report. You struck a cord with me in the issue encounted with multiple data entry screens in software applications and the need to click through about 5 screens to do any task. I saw that SOURCES was on your "sometime" list and it hit on one of my biggest rants with genealogy software. Here is my take on this feature. Frankly, while the genealogy world espouses the importance of sources, the genealogy software industry does a HORRIBLE job of handling sources and the associated media. Can you imagine what it would be like if genealogy software treated the PEOPLE facts the same way they treated SOURCES?. It would look something like this: - All information on a person is limited to 3 data-entry fields Person, Person Detail, Person Note. - While the program MAY allow you to choose templates for the different types of people, or free-form type the information, the report output and search capabilities of the software still limited you to three fields. - A new person entry is required for each location the person lived during their lifetime - A new person entry is required for each name or name variation a person has over their lifetime - The software has no capability to search, group, and cross-reference those separate person entries This is how sources, repositories, and media are treated by genealogy software and it is apparent that little time or thought has gone into creating a truly dynamic and user friendly approach to these areas. Again, this is one of my biggest rants with the genealogy software industry. Below is a description of how I have approached genealogy research and it may give you a better idea of the workflow and the difficulties encountered. My Source-Driven Workflow: I am doing a one-place study for a town's 150 year celebration in 2018. This is a completely different approach to genealogy research than the traditional one-name or one-family research approach - which seems to be the way most genealogy programs are designed. With a one-place study, you start from the source documents and build the list of individuals based on known source documents (census records, county birth, marriage, and death records, local newspaper obituaries, local cemetery records, etc.). In my current project, I have 5 repositories, about 500 source documents, about 5000 media files, about 168,0000 citations, each citation is linked to numerous fact tags..Every single fact has a source (including a person's gender) because it all starts with the source document. Each source document has an image file. My approach to this project was to start with the federal census records for the town. For my current project, the 1870 census for the town has 8 pages with 277 individuals grouped into 60 households (one person appears twice in this census record so the census shows a total of 278 individuals). The census for 1870 has a minumum of 5 data items in the title of the page and then another 25 data items in the census page for each individual. Organized into a spreadsheet it works out to about 30 columns and with 50 rows of data per census page (or about 1500 pieces of data). Each piece of data is a potential clue to another source document, so the column with the check box for "attended school within the census year" could lead to a school yearbook, class photo, report card, or even the school registration records with the parents names. The "rent or own" column could lead to land records or farm schedule records. Census records are a fantastic starting point when doing a one-place study and provide all sorts of clues into the community and potential other source records. I have not found a genealogy program that will easily capture every field from a census record, most only capture the title, location, and date and then leave it to the user to enter all of the data into a notes field. How in the heck can you sort, filter or search the notes fields from all your sources? I am still using Excel spreadsheets for my one-place study. The spreadsheet allows me to easily sort and filter data in a variety of ways as I began examining each individual person and researching beyond the town records to fill in the life events. For the one-place study, I created ONE Excel workbook with multiple tabs. - Master person index - given name, surname, gender, birth year, death year, and a column for each source document - this allows me to quickly spot where I have holes in my research - Master sources index - source name, year, publisher, etc, and then a column for each repository where I found that source document with the call-number entered into the field - Master repository index - repository name and address columns, and columns to capture hours, cost of making copies, whether or not they allow computers or portable scanning of records, and a notes field for misc notes - Tab for Each SOURCE - (i.e. 1870 US census, 1880 census, etc). For example, on the 1870 US census tab, there are columns for each question on the 1870 US census, with a few additional columns to indicate the state, county, enumeration district, and page. It took me ONE weekend to transcribe all the census records (7 federal censuses,and 6 state censuses) for the town into Excel spreadsheets and capture EVERY piece of data. I also have tabs for birth records, marriage records, death records, and cemetery records. The Search for Genealogy Software: After over 35 years of working on research, it is time to start putting it all together into a report format that can be published in a 150 year book format, create group records to link families (currently in family group sheets in multiple binders) and link the media files (in a portable drive with 1000s of document images, photos, maps, stories, etc.). So my search for genealogy software began. I have tried about 20 different genealogy software products so far and am always looking at new ones, but still can't find one that is friendly to the source driven or one-place study approach. It took over 1000 hours of data entry time to input the data from ONE census record into the genealogy software program and then when I exported to GEDCOM realized that there was no way to view or sort the data into a spreadsheet view. This made it very difficult to begin adding the next census record into the tree and with each additional source document. What was originally a 2mb Excel spreadsheet file became a 68mb file in a 250mb software application BEFORE I started adding all the media links. Then the software began bogging down, locking up my computer and corrupting my data. On to another software product and I got to start the entire date entry exercise again. Another 1000 hours of data entry time because the software requires multiple screens to input data, multiple source entries for each repository, multiple image links, I am surprised that since genealogy software is basically a database comprised of tables that only a few genealogy programs offer a spreadsheet view of data and none that I have found give you the option to do data-entry or editing from a spreadsheet or table view. Only ONE allowed me the option of importing a csv file, but only for people fields and not for sources. Sources, Repositories, and Media: Page 8 from 1870 US Federal Census Population Schedule for Willow Township, Cherokee County, Iowa is the same darn source record whether you find it on Ancestry.com, NARA, Family Search, or the state archives, or your own personal filing system. Only ONE original document exists and I shouldn't need to create a separate source citation in my genealogy software program for every repository that has a copy of the document. The REPOSITORY is what varies, each with it's own call number. I should be able to create a source document that is based on the DOCUMENT and enter ALL of the data from that document into a single screen. Then associate that DOCUMENT with the REPOSITORY and the call number and date accessed for that repository. Perhaps add a note field to that repository so that you can indicate if the copy they have has been altered or is just a really poor quality. Thus the citation for the document would be the same across all repositories. ,Can you imagine if you had to know the exact URL for a website page before you could search for a record online? Imagine if Family Search required you to know the Ancestral File number for the person you were researching and wouldn't let you search for a person by name. Then imagine going back to that record a few years later only to discover that they have changed the way they index the file numbers. No wonder people have such a hard time documenting sources in genealogy software or end up with a separate copy of the same source image for each citation because the online database has created a separate url for each person who appears on the page of the census. Here is what I would like to see in genealogy software: 1. Organize Sources using Keywords/Groups - (i.e. Source Year, Source Title, Source Place, Source Type) - would require allowing user to create keyword list or flags for each source. Result - user could sort, filter, or search sources in a number of ways or select or exclude sources from GEDCOMS or Reports 2. DATA ENTRY TEMPLATEs for sources. Third-Party User, or pre-loaded templates for major sources such as census records would be a HUGE plus. This would allow users to come up with templates for specific source documents enountered making the software more dynamic without being dependent on upgrades. It would require creating the ability to add data-entry templates as an add-in feature. You could establish the format required for user contributed templates so that they are always compatible with the software and even set up an "Approved Template" system where users can submit templates through the forum, get feedback, make changes, and receive your final approval before being added to the library of templates. Being able to upload a csv file into a template would be another HUGE timesaver so that even when the software isn't able to handle the spreadsheet view it can at least import the data from one. An example of a template for a US Federal Census record would be: SOURCE - would contain the Source level fields (Source Title, link to media items, link to repositories, link to Places) Action to be done by template - Create Event for each individual Columns would be created in template by selecting TAGS to match field where data is to be entered for each individual with option to add any conflicting data as an alternate fact. Rows in template would be a linked to an existing person in tree or add as new person and create the separate citation for that source.(ideally, for data entry speed, allow user to key in all the data first, then go back and link each row to an existing person in the tree or choose to have the system create as new person. GO or similar button would tell the system that you have completed the data entry or edits and want it to execute the tasks. Once you create a master template for say the 1870 US Federal Census, then it would be available to select from the library of templates, fill in the fields to specify the place and page number for the individual page of the census being transcribed, then open the spreadsheet and transcribe the census page, then use a lookup field column to either link to an existing person or add as new person. Once a page of the census has been completed, click the GO button and all the indiviuduals now have an EVENT for the census, linked to the source, with an individual citation to that source. Any new people found in the census page have been added as new individuals with a source record. Then it is an easy task of going into the individual's record and creating the relationship links between family members. 3. Associate the SOURCE table with the PLACE table - same place table used for People/Events so that when pulling a PLACE report, the user would also see source documents associated with the place 4. Associate REPOSITORY to SOURCE (many-to-many relationship) - the junction table would have the call-number, date accessed, web/media link and could be entered from either the SOURCE or the REPOSITORY view. This would mean that when you find a new repository for a source document (i.e. a census record), it would only require the addition of ONE repository level citation associated with ONE source, not 50 separate citations for each person who appears on the census page and citation links to each fact on that census page. 5. Associate a REPOSITORY to a PLACE - so that a place report would also have a list of repositories for that PLACE Like I said in the beginning, I like the fact that you are moving away from the multiple screens to do a single task. As you reach the point of working on SOURCES, REPOSITORIES, and MEDIA, I hope that the long-winded rant above gives you some ideas. Feature Suggestions Feature Suggestions: Importing Two Ged Files http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=31#post-586 Sat, 09 Feb 2013 14:36:20 GMT serenity2006 586@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ I completely agree with the need to keep GEDCOM files from other users separate. When I first started doing genealogy research online (decades ago), I fell into the newbie trap of merging GEDCOMs into my own and ended up with a huge mess. I do need the ability to view GEDCOM files side-by-side and merge individuals into a single family tree. I have experimented with multiple genealogy software products over the years and now have about 20 versions of my family tree spread out all over the place. I am looking for an easy way to merge all of the various trees into one family tree so I can identify the gaps are in my research. Once I get all the pieces into one tree, I will be able to delete all the old versions and clean up the space on my computer. I am also doing a one-place study on a town for their 150 year celebration in 2018. I hadn't really thought through my approach when I started the project 35 years ago or when I started moving it all to computer files about 20 years ago. Frankly, I never thought that I would be doing the research for the town celebration at the time the project started. So now I have a separate tree for each census year for the town. There are numerous overlaps of people from one census year to the next and I need to merge all of these trees into one tree for the town history project. You are correct in your statement that the merge functions in the software products on the market are limited and it has been a grueling task trying to clean up the mess I made when I created separate trees for each census. I look forward to the addition of the side-by-side and combine feature in Behold. Theresa Feature Suggestions General Discussion: Beta? http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=210#post-585 Fri, 08 Feb 2013 02:42:19 GMT qbuster 585@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Louis I read your blog piece about the Aussie cruise - I've heard about going from the fat into the fire but my brother (who lives in OZ) told me recently that temperatures there were 50 degrees centrigrade! And you are leaving temps well below freezing...the comparison should be intriguing... Is it possible we could have a look at the presenttaions you will be giving on the cruise? Whatever, here's wishijng you and your wife enjoy the break. I admit to being jealsou - here in the UK we have had rain and floods not quite of biblical proportions but when it wasn't even safe to use one's boat one wonders.... Cheers mate.....(a greeting in Australian) Will General Discussion General Discussion: Beta? http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=210#post-584 Sat, 19 Jan 2013 03:55:14 GMT lkessler 584@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Will, I appreciate the push - again - and your suggestion. One good thing to let you know: I got past the "roadblock" - i.e. figuring out how to do the Life events properly. I had been bouncing back and forth on that for several months now. The not so good thing is that there will be a bit more of a delay. I'm preparing for my Australia trip which starts in two weeks and is three weeks long. There won't be much developing going on for that period of time. But I'm optimistic now about where I am and there will be some exciting and innovative things coming out of Behold within a short while after that starting with the Life Events. The Life Events and Consistency checking are both currently in a state of partial completion, and can't be released like this, even in beta. But maybe I can and should comment them out if I can, and get a new working version out that will at least have all the other changes and fixes in it. Yes, a year is too long, so your suggestion is a good idea. I'll see if I can get that release out in the next two weeks before I leave. Louis General Discussion General Discussion: Beta? http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=210#post-583 Sat, 19 Jan 2013 01:19:44 GMT qbuster 583@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Louis You said you like being pushed - this is not a push but a general comment. Its been over year now since the last update and my latest glance shows me that dates set last year for the beginning of this year (2013) are already slipping. For that reason, I would like to endorse trolleydave's suggestion that you put out a beta not only to keep us interested and get us to help you look for issues but also to give you that push you said you liked. Cheers Will General Discussion Feature Suggestions: Importing Two Ged Files http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=31#post-568 Tue, 30 Oct 2012 01:21:35 GMT lkessler 568@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Thanks Dave for the review of GenP - which I actually haven't tried myself. Unlike GenP, Behold maintains the two-way relationships. When one way is created, the other is as well (and Behold will identify one-ways in the GEDCOM that should be two-ways). Hopefully, when I add virtual merging to Behold, I'll be able to make the identification of identical people very simple, so that it shouldn't take more than a couple of clicks. Then, somehow it will have to cascade to spouses, children, parents etc and allow some sort of checklist confirmation of the ones to combine. But that will be worked out when the time comes. Louis Feature Suggestions Feature Suggestions: Importing Two Ged Files http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=31#post-567 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 21:18:54 GMT trolleydave 567@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Hi Browsing this Forum on linking vs merging, I came across Louis' post from Nov 2005 with a comment on the program GenP and it's ability to link mulitiple databases. Since I'm totally convinced that small databases with linking are the way to go (one of the many things promised in Behold that I can hardly stand to wait for), I decided to take at look at it. I downloaded the demo version and generated a couple of minimal databases, based on two grandparents. Grandpa's file included both his ancestors and descendents, but no spouse. Grandma's file had only some ancestors. (The demo version won't import GEDCOMs). For me the pgm had a rather steep learning curve, but after much fiddling around, I did manage to create a working link between them, specifically between one of Grandpa's children in his file and my grandmother in hers. It works both ways it seems, the child's pedigree includes his parents and grandparents on both sides, and a descendents list for grandma's father includes her son from grandpa's file. What it didn't do is make a connection between grandma and grandpa, so that grandpa's family page has no spouse. GenP seems to be resolutely agnostic on relationships; if I'm understanding it correctly, every one needs to be specified. Accordingly, I guess that one would also need a marriage link between grandma and grandpa, and I don't know if that is allowed. And each of the other 7 children in grandpa's family would need separate links to their mother? The instructions are less than clear and the video tutorial on linking goes by so fast that even after many re-runs, I'm still not clear on what is important or not or why certain sequences are as they are. Working with GenP did point out one problem with being dogmatic about relationships. If there is no "child" category with implicit relationship to a set of "parents", entering large families becomes a lot more work. You certainly want a way of entering non-conventional relationships, but even in today's societies, some specific block of children biologically associated with one male and one female parent are in an overwhelming majority and a shortcut to that assumption is a good place to start. I guess I don't have the time or the $50 to invest further in this program, but it was an interesting exercise, for what it's worth. Dave Feature Suggestions Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-566 Sat, 20 Oct 2012 20:08:09 GMT lkessler 566@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Dave, No problem at all. I want to ensure that Behold is running the way it should for everyone. Louis Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-565 Sat, 20 Oct 2012 06:56:01 GMT trolleydave 565@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Louis As best I can tell from the windows "Display" panel, both screens are running at 1366 x 768. It may be complicated by the fact that the second "monitor" is actually a 14" Vizio flat screen TV that has VGA and HDMI inputs and can come up in any of several modes depending on last use, turn off and turn on variations, etc. I've seen the lost window effect several times, but it's been quite a while since and I didn't remember that I'd ever used the extra monitor with Behold. I try to remember to clear that screen before I close anything but it's probably not 100%. Part of the problem is that we're living in 275 sq. ft. (full time RVers) and the dual screen setup comes and goes, frequently with the monitor in the closet for weeks at a time, so it doesn't become habit. Sorry for the big flap about near nothing. Thanks Dave Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-562 Sat, 20 Oct 2012 05:10:48 GMT lkessler 562@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Dave: Great! I'm glad that was it. No. The regedit simply wipes out the stored coordinates of the window (which happened to be off the screen). I suggested it as a solution because when Behold doesn't find coordinates, it places the window in a default position at the center of the screen - so that should make it visible again. It would happen to the GEDCOM and log windows as well if they were dragged off the screen. Whenever you move a window, new coordinates will be added to the Registry. If they again happen to be off the screen, well, you'll get the same problem. I have two screens as well, and the same thing happened to me a few years ago. I wondered where it went for awhile. At the time, I remember looking for a way to determine physical screen size including all the monitors. I put out this question at Stack Overflow: <a href="http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1424920/how-do-i-get-the-usable-coordinates-of-the-screen-in-delphi" rel="nofollow">http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1424920/how-do-i-get-the-usable-coordinates-of-the-screen-in-delphi</a> So I implemented the best solution possible to keep the windows visible in case the physical screen size changed. And it works most of the time. But it can fail sometimes when you have multiple screens that have different screen resolutions (width x height in pixels). It requires inadvertently moving a window to that secret spot, and that doesn't happen often. It hasn't happened to me since that time about 3 years ago. I suspect your multiple monitors have different resolutions. If so, that may be why Behold couldn't bring that window back into view. You may have accidentally moved it to "hidden" corner / secret spot. Louis Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-561 Sat, 20 Oct 2012 04:09:35 GMT trolleydave 561@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Louis I guess I was experimenting when you entered the solution. Will the regedit eliminate the possibility of losing it again? Thanks again - Dave Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-560 Sat, 20 Oct 2012 04:03:40 GMT trolleydave 560@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Lost is found! Still don't know for sure where it's been. The idea that it might be hiding off screen led me to get the monitor out of the closet and hook it up. I wasn't watching the main screen when the monitor came on, but when I looked back , there it was, overlapping the main program window. If I move the Organize window to the external monitor and then turn the monitor off, the Organize window disappears, can't be found on the main screen. However, if I then pull the video connector at the 'puter, the Organize window pops right up on the main screen. But if I close the pgm while the window is "disappeared", it doesn't come back when the pgm is restarted without the external monitor. Connecting and turning on the monitor brings it right back up. That sort of replicates the previous symptoms. I must have inadvertently gone thru something like that sequence on some previous session, tho I don't remember ever having Behold up on the dual screen setup. My memory ain't what it used to be so I won't insist. Don't know if there's any way to prevent that behavior unless you know a lot more about window control on extended desktops than I do (which isn't much) Sorry for all the fuss and thanks for your patience Dave Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-559 Sat, 20 Oct 2012 03:25:06 GMT lkessler 559@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Dave, Behold is doing nothing more than opening a standard window when you press F9. The window is no different than the window that opens for the GEDCOM and log windows, which you say work. Thank you for your details and Brett, for your assistance. I think in your details, Dave, you mentioned a second desktop. It is very possible that the window position is set up outside the boundaries of your viewable screen area. If that is it, you can try this: Run the registry editor. On the start menu input area, type: "regedit". You may have to give permission to let it run. Go to: HKEY_CURRENT_USER -> Software -> Behold. Select the "OrganizePages" key. It contains the position of the Organize window and what the last page you viewed was so that it will open the same way next time. Right-click on the "OrganizePages" key and select "Delete". Answer Yes when it asks if you want to delte this key and all its subkeys. After you do that, try Behold again. Hopefully now the Organize window will appear. Louis Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-558 Sat, 20 Oct 2012 02:29:44 GMT trolleydave 558@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Progress, or lack thereof - see reply to Bret, above. Shut down all foreground programs, one at a time, no help. Wiped out Behold, restarted 'puter, reinstalled Behold, still no Organize page. Turned off Comodo firewall and Avast antivirus, no help. Wiped out Behold again, reinstalled w/ firewall and antivirus disabled, no help. For all the files I can find, names and sizes match between main machine and netbook, but must be some more I haven't found, the reinstalled copies are already registered :- ). Is the page generated by the Behold.exe file, or is there a template somewhere else? Also note that after the last reinstall, there is no start icon on the desktop. The machine has been used with an external monitor and extended desktop, but not with this program. Is it possible that Behold has found a way to position the page off-screen? Both machines are running Win 7 Home Premium, 64 bit, Netbook has Service Pack 1, main machine hasn't been updated much. The main machine is also set up w/ dual boot to Linux and has a LOT of software installed, runs around 80 processes when loafing, cf about 60 on the netbook w/ several pgms running. Don't know if any of this provides any clues. Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-557 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 18:31:02 GMT trolleydave 557@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Brett Thanks for the offer, but I'll hold that in reserve for now. I don't think it's the input file, I've tried it with several GEDCOM's (see, I can take a hint :- ), both of my own data and some downloads from Family Search, and Louis points out that it should work even without an input file. I installed the pgm on another laptop this morning (skinny little netbook, the music and navigation 'puter) and it works just fine. Looks like it's either something in the configuration of the first machine or in the noted fact that I have about 10 other pgms running, including a couple of Libre Office spreadsheets, several PDF's and text files open, Legacy, Topo, etc. Took Louis at his word and did the last re-install on that machine with some or all of that running. Guess the next step is to shut down all the busy stuff one by one to see if it's a specific interference, general overload, or machine background. Dave Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-556 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 06:42:11 GMT brett 556@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Dave I am running similar configuration to you. If you like, send me GEDCOM and I will see what it does here. I have had no problems on any size GEDCOM that loads into Behold. Brett Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-555 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 06:03:40 GMT trolleydave 555@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Hey, you're up way too late :-). I considered the hidden window, happens all the time on Mary Anne's jigsaw puzzles. Had the main window at about 1/2 screen, moved it around, nothing underneath. Tried it again just now - same result. Scratch head... Dave Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-554 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 05:05:56 GMT lkessler 554@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Hmmm. First I wonder if the BHO icon and F9 key are actually working, but the Organize Window is not on top but is obscured by the main window. Try this: Open Behold, load your file and press F9. Presumably you don't see the Organize window. Is your main window maximized? If so, press the square box in the upper right to make it a resizeable window. Make that window smaller, say half the screen in height and width. Do you see the Organize window anywhere? If not, move the main window around the screen to try to reveal the Organize window. If that reveals the Organize window, then that's good. Then I just have to figure out why the Organize window wasn't opened on top, which it should be. If you still can't find the Organize window, then we'll have to try something else. p.s. You can try it without loading any files. The BHO icon and F9 should still work to bring up the Organize window. Louis Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: missing organize page http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=269#post-553 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 04:16:44 GMT trolleydave 553@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Help. I finally decided to quit waiting for the next version and started to try to understand the possibilities of what's there. Loaded a Gedcom, played around some with the report format, (maybe more on that later) and then decided to get into the Organize options. Stone wall. Neither the Organize menu nor the BHO icon nor F9 will bring up an Organize page. The Gedcom and Log icons work, the header bar grays out like the program was trying to do something, but nothing happens. I'm at a loss to know where to start. I've downloaded another copy of the program, reinstalled it a couple of times, to no effect. I'm running Win 7 64bit on a moderately powered Acer laptop, tend to operate with lots of open windows, but does ok with things like Delorme Topo or Goldwave or ACDSee, and loads my 500 name Gedcom in an eye-blink. It's gotta be something dumb. Any ideas out there? Dave PS: Push, Push, Push Questions and Answers General Discussion: Beta? http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=210#post-494 Sun, 09 Sep 2012 22:43:35 GMT brett 494@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Push...push...push General Discussion General Discussion: Beta? http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=210#post-493 Sun, 09 Sep 2012 21:58:03 GMT lkessler 493@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Dave: This wouldn't have been a problem if I didn't string this out so long. From February to now September is much too long between releases. So please bear with me a while longer. Summer and Genealogy Q&A and BetterGEDCOM and work and family and well, life in general, has been getting in the way. Once I get 1.1 out, I know it won't be perfect. It will be pretty good, but I will look forward to everyone's feedback and suggestions for usability improvements and any bugs that need to be squashed. But I like being pushed. Thanks for the push. Meow! Louis General Discussion General Discussion: Beta? http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=210#post-492 Sun, 09 Sep 2012 19:48:38 GMT trolleydave 492@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Whoops, messed up the punch line. ...cat who ate cheese ... General Discussion General Discussion: Beta? http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=210#post-491 Sun, 09 Sep 2012 19:45:21 GMT trolleydave 491@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Given all the highly significant changes you're making in 1.1, wouldn't a public beta be useful so we wouldn't all have to hold our breath until you've ironed out all the complexities of date checking and manual updating? Even if the life events weren't all as polished as you'd like, it would us adoring acolytes a sample to play with, get a feel for where you're heading, and possibly even result in useful feedback (probably from the many more qualified than I am). After all, it's not like we're going to follow you over a cliff with our data, it's liability-free. Of course I can see why you might not want a lot of public exposure of the Grand Idea yet - it'l have to be your call. Like the cat waiting by the mouse hole with baited breath . . . Dave General Discussion Report a Problem: Misleading message or Windows playing up? http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=139#post-414 Sun, 15 Jul 2012 05:33:02 GMT brett 414@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Thanks for the explanation. It was the 'set up a bit differently than other programs' that tricked me. Report a Problem Report a Problem: Misleading message or Windows playing up? http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=139#post-413 Sun, 15 Jul 2012 02:47:59 GMT lkessler 413@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Brett: Behold's options are set up a bit differently than other programs. I did this early on in the development, and I thought it was very flexible, but most people stumble over it. I think I'm either going to have to explain it well in the documentation, or else I'll have to change it. None-the-less, here's how it works: The Organize window does not contain program options. It only contains options to define what files to input (the GEDCOMs tab), how to organize those files (the Familes tab), and then how to display the Everything Report for those files (the Numbering, Tags and Report tabs). This Organize window is seeded with Behold's defaults. When you open a file, it will be opened with all the defaults. When you change an option and then press "Apply" or "OK", e.g. the "max 100 messages" option, then depending on the options changed, Behold may be able to just refresh the Everything Report, or it may have to re-read the files and regenerate the report. In the case of your option, it would have re-read the file, because the log file is only created when the files are read. In order to save the options for a particular file, you need to press the "Save..." button at the bottom left of the Organize page. This will save a Behold file (*.bho), which contains all the Organize options. Then next time, instead of opening your GEDCOM file, open the Behold file and it will open with all your saved options. See: <a href="http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/userguide/HowSaveOrgInfo.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/userguide/HowSaveOrgInfo.htm</a> I think that is very flexible. You can have multiple Behold files for a single GEDCOM file so you can view it different ways or with different options and not need to re-pick all the options over and over again. Notice on the Numbering, Tags and Report tabs that on the left, there are buttons to "Load or Merge from..." and "Save or Merge into..." That is so you can get options you know you saved into a previous Behold file into your active dataset, or save your current options into a Behold file on disk. So you can create a Default.bho file with all your preferred options, and load/merge them into a current run. Or you can load the Default file and just change the input files on the GEDCOMs tab. At least I thought this was a good idea at the time. It is (like most things in Behold) very innovative and different from the tedious way other programs handle options. Note that I also use Behold files to act as translation files. All you have to do is merge the German.bho file in on the Tags and Report pages, and Behold's Everything Report should display in German. See also these places in the documentation that give more info: <a href="http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/userguide/TutOrganize.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/userguide/TutOrganize.htm</a> <a href="http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/userguide/RefOrganizeWindow.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/userguide/RefOrganizeWindow.htm</a> <a href="http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/userguide/HowUseTranslation.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/userguide/HowUseTranslation.htm</a> Louis Report a Problem Questions and Answers: NAME with Level 2 tag http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=138#post-412 Sat, 14 Jul 2012 23:55:42 GMT lkessler 412@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Brett, The DATE and PLAC tag are not allowed under a NAME tag. In GEDCOM, look up the PERSONAL_NAME_STRUCTURE. Behold doesn't yet check for tags in improper places. That check will be added when I do GEDCOM export and include a "perfect" GEDCOM 5.5.1 validator with it. Louis Questions and Answers Report a Problem: Misleading message or Windows playing up? http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=139#post-411 Sat, 14 Jul 2012 23:33:39 GMT brett 411@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ After import of GEDCOM, when I check the log file for full details, the following appears towards the bottom of the section. Only the first 100 of each type of message are listed. To display all messages: Uncheck the "Log File: Max 100 messages" setting under Organize -> Report -> Extra Info and reinput your files. The input will take longer if there are a lot of messages. When I Uncheck as above, and either Apply or OK, the loaded file is immediately refreshed with a new log file. If though, I then import/open the file, it defaults to 100 again, so the message is slightly misleading, as there is no need to reinput the file. I have been unable to save this as an ongoing default option. Report a Problem Questions and Answers: NAME with Level 2 tag http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=138#post-410 Sat, 14 Jul 2012 22:13:17 GMT brett 410@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Louis The following is created after GEDCOM export by one of the programs I use. Behold does not flag it as error or warning. 1 NAME Shown as First Middle Last on First2 Middle2 Last2's Marriage Record, NSW BDM 1891/999. 2 DATE 01 JAN 1891 2 PLAC Sydney, New South Wales, Australia However, one of the other programs does, with: Warning : Unknown level 2 tag (skipped). 2 DATE 01 JAN 1891 Warning : Unknown level 2 tag (skipped). 2 PLAC Sydney, New South Wales, Australia It appears it does not like the Date and Place as a level 2 within NAME. How do you see this? I cannot find anything in the 5.5 specs. Brett Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: GEDCOM Date format (again) http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=137#post-409 Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:58:10 GMT lkessler 409@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Brett: DAY := dd { Size 1:2 } dd is a numeric digit whose value is within the valid range of the days for the associated calendar month. My interpretation of GEDCOM is that both 03 and 3 are allowed. It does not say that leading zero's are not allowed. Behold reads both and allows 03 and does not give any message for it. But it does convert the 03 to a 3 internally and always display it without the leading zero. When GEDCOM export is added, it will export it without the leading zero. Louis Questions and Answers Questions and Answers: GEDCOM Date format (again) http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=137#post-408 Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:24:45 GMT brett 408@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Louis Another date query. What is your (and therefore probably Behold's) interpetation of the following date: 03 Mar 2012 Is it valid or invalid GEDCOM 5.5.1 if it has the leading zero? Brett Questions and Answers Report a Problem: Date validation - case sensitive http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=132#post-402 Sat, 14 Apr 2012 16:15:10 GMT lkessler 402@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ Yes. All parts of the date. And that actually simplifies the work that Behold is doing. Personally, I think it is a great idea that the GEDCOM designers had. I should have discovered it earlier, but now that I have, I'll make use of it. Louis Report a Problem Report a Problem: Date validation - case sensitive http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/topic.php?id=132#post-401 Sat, 14 Apr 2012 05:49:42 GMT brett 401@http://www.beholdgenealogy.com/forum/ I assume this applies to BET, ABt etc in that they can be Bet, bet etc but compared upper or lower cased. Brett Report a Problem